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An Enclave For The Christian Right
ByKaisar
Why Men Shouldn’t Listen To MGTOW and Red Pill Blindly
BREAKING NEWS: Not everything you hear online is true. And some of that involves common beliefs espoused by MGTOW/Red Pillers.
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A sizeable majority of people that spread MGTOW and red pill information are not reliable.
It’s just reality.
Most of them are no different from the female versions spreading the same type of nonsense about men (aka feminists).
Don’t get me wrong, a lot of the information available is accurate. A lot of red pill and MGTOW discussions are absolutely nothing but reality. But other parts of it are pure hype and bull.
That’s why I don’t like labels to begin with.
As an “entry summary”: Don’t let someone online tell you to avoid women entirely or to treat them like disposable sex objects. Women aren’t your enemy. Date, have sex, have fun, do you. Or don’t. Focus on yourself. Build yourself up. Whatever.
Just be smart. Don’t be blind.
Why Men Shouldn’t Listen To MGTOW and Red Pill Blindly
There seems to be a strong trendline of men on the internet (and many I’ve met in person) shifting toward a more MGTOW/PUA mindset.
I don’t see this as a bad thing.
However, just because some dude online that got screwed over tells you to do something doesn’t necessarily mean you should.
There’s a bunch of weirds online that think that you need to be a male bodybuilder with $5M in the bank account to find a nice woman. This just isn’t true.
There are truths in the red pill, and there are truths in MGTOW. But there are a hell of a lot of flat out lies and general BS that you need to wade through as well. Don’t take all this at face value.
Let’s go through a truthful list:
- Third wave feminism is complete garbage
- Feminists should be avoided like the plague
- Biologically, women seek certain men (High “status” or other attributes like money)
- Legal marriage is a fantastic deal for women and a rough deal for men
- You do have to “be a man” to get and keep a woman long term
- Women are more openly promiscuous now. You aren’t going to get your unicorn.
MGTOW and Red Pill dudes espouse this stuff like candy.
Which is great, because it is all truthful. Hypergamy, masculine game, red pill marriage tactics all actually work. They are the way men are supposed to be. They create the type of men that women like to respond to.
But there is no massive secret plot to turn you into a cuckold. Some leftoid women may try to do that, but you can do this magical thing called “say no”. And magically, you avoided it. Plus, you won’t run into many of those kind of women in the real world, anyway.
The same goes for man-hating women. There are a lot less of them than you realize. They are just vocal on the internet. There are billions of people on this planet, a 1000-person retweet about hating men is nothing. And even then, it could just be a temporary emotional appeal. We all have those: men and women.
Additionally, your girlfriend is not going to jump-ship on you immediately when a dude rolls up in an Audi and you’re driving a 1997 truck. There are much more complicated things involved here, and a big factor in it is YOU—who YOU pick as your partner.
Your partner is a reflection of you, after all. Do you date slutty club women? You shouldn’t be surprised if she does monkey branch on you. That was your choice to go with an inferior woman (in the dating realm).
You can’t control reality, but you can control how you respond to it.
Look: at the end of the day, what is it that both of these movements want?
Women.
- Red Pill (PUA) wants to bang a lot of chicks, or hold a stable marriage through red pill tactics.
- MGTOW wants women to be “better”, but realize they are not and just give up.
Both center around the desire for women.
And pretty much all men, even outside these groups, want a certain type of woman:
- Low bodycount
- Attractive
- In shape
- Submissive
- Not overtly career oriented
- Similar in personality
This is a pretty big laundry list. Also, probably a unicorn. But take a second and think, what do these men offer in return?
Well, many men nowadays are getting in great physical shape, working their ass off on career to offer a high salary for the woman to have the option (read: not requirement) to stay at home, and struggling to become a leader.
In short, many men are on a great path. MGTOW and red pill theory seek to f*** all that up. MGTOW tells men to ditch all the things that make them better, and to instead go their own way. Red pill theory tells men to avoid doing anything that isn’t going to help them get laid.
Why can’t you do things you want to do and better yourself? Take women out of the picture. This should be for you, and you alone. If it ends up helping with women, great. If it ends up doing the opposite, who cares? Do you. Have fun. Improve yourself. Focus on #1.
But are the guys that preach these movements also on that same path?
Here’s a hint. Go to YouTube and look up videos of popular MGTOW/Red Pillers.
Almost all of them are old, out of shape, and look like they just got back from working the night shift at Walmart.
Hell, most of the videos are shot in shoddy apartments that look disgusting.
Are these the men you aspire to follow?
It presents no question in my mind why these men preach these things. Grifters. They just want your money and ad revenue.
You shouldn’t avoid women, or relationships, because some douche who lives in a run-down apartment in Detroit with no job said it’s a bad idea online.
You should BE SMART. Do avoid psychopathic chicks. Do avoid feminists. Do avoid anything that could put you in a #MeToo tweet. But don’t become a massive sheep and lose out on a fun part of life from these movements. And likewise, don’t spend all your time chasing tail. It’s not that important. Really.
And while we’re at it, learn the difference between negging, playful teasing, and being a dick. It’s fine to give a girl shit sometimes, but there’s no reason to be a dick.
Here’s some honest, down to earth, no BS advice for young guys confused on this stuff:
- Make friends. Male and female. Don’t avoid women unless there’s a potential for a #MeToo problem (IE: Female coworkers – avoid avoid avoid).
- Don’t be a dick
- You can’t make a hoe into a housewife. (Don’t try to turn club chicks or other slutty women into faithful girlfriends. If you want them for a while, by all means date them, but keep your emotional distance. They will not be faithful). And for the love of everything, don’t marry them.
- Lift. It’s good for your health too. Plus, it’s discipline. Plus, you’ll feel more masculine. This really has nothing to do with women, but it’ll end up helping literally everything else in your life.
- Treat the girls you sleep with like humans, not sex dolls. Just like you don’t want to be screwed over, you shouldn’t screw over others in return.
- Being “alpha” works, even if it’s just pretend.
- For dating, know what your values are. Find a woman with similar ones. If your values don’t match, you won’t match.
- Don’t make a checklist. This is a human. You have failures. So will she. No one is a math formula. Be open to some deviations from your “vision” of what you want. But don’t let that vision go too far off. It’s about finding a medium.
- There are so many things in life better than sex. Do not focus so much time and energy on that one aspect. So many men do it strictly for self-validation. Find your own inner security and validate yourself that way. Anything else is insecurity.
If you do these things, you’ll be much better suited than if you followed one of the “movements” to a T.
You’ll have more friends, women will actually like you because you’re not just a loser PUA douche in his 30s, and you’ll also be better suited in life (health, wealth, etc).
And most importantly, you won’t miss out on life by just treating women like sex dolls or by avoiding them all together.
There is no need to mentally manipulate women. You don’t need to.
Life is short. We are men. Men take risks. Just take risks with a calculating mindset.
There are certain key things that are good about these movements. They are teaching men what women actually want (read: not what they say they want) and are incentivizing men to be more active and physical in their lives.
But on the flipside, there are downsides to these movements. They are making some young men swear off women all together, lose out on life experiences, create a vicious evil cycle, and lose out on growth potential. Or they are turning them into PUA guys whose only hobby is chasing p***y like a drug addict trying to get the next crack-rock hit.
In Summary
Women aren’t your enemy. They want and need you, even if they don’t realize it yet.
It saddens me tremendously to see so many young men being fully suckered by this trash movement and losing out on life experiences because some fat, lame online loser told them it’s what they should do. Part of being a leader is doing just that: leading. Not following some other movement off a cliff.
Be your own man, have fun, get better, and take a few calculated risks.
Explore your life. You have unlimited potential. Don’t throw it away.
Kaisar
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The real trick to it all is to truly know who you are and to be true to that. Im not talking about an image, thats for for others. Believe me thats more difficult than it sounds and requires a lot of wisdom and knowledge neither of which come easily.
If you can do all of that and alsofind a relationship that works for both of you and is fulfilling then go with it but beware. Instincts almost always blind one to reality. After all its evolutions way of perpetuating the species. If hou ar looking for something beyond that then you must look very carefully both within and without.
Good Luck
I find women attractive and by human nature desirable, most women find me to be the same. I have had relationships some good and some not so good. Most of my friends and including myself have gone through a divorce and lost most of our savings, house and kids. 50% of marriages end in divorce. Wives file for divorce 85% of the time. The breakup of long term relationships are greater then 50%. A woman can enter into a relationship with option of staying or leaving without any consequences. A man has a 50% chance of losing everything he owns. Surveys show that 15% of wives who stay married will have an affair. I have two sons in their 20’s I told both of them in our society relationships with women should be considered short term. Long term relationships or marriage is too much of a risk.
Women have a book- destroy any man now- tells me all I need to know
I’m a woman. I dontclub I bring home the bacon . I cook and I clean. My partner does not work he says he’s trying. In the last 6 months he has been spending a lot of his time listening to MGTOW. He tries to share his one sided views with me. I take it very personally even though I am not one of the women they complain about. He won’t listen when I say it’s not me and it’s not “most” women. I don’t know what to do or say. It’s destroying our relationship. We’ve been together for 15 years.
Had you been a man and your partner a woman, and had you (or him) filed for divorce, the court system would have hacked your wealth into pieces. But you are the working woman and he is the lazy husband/partner, so for you the future is bright: Leave him and move on. Isn’t it great to be a woman?
Nice to see a young man like this writer with a good head on his shoulders, and common sense. Im 61, and a man with a faith base. Boy, does the red pill/MGTOW/MRM hate guys like me! I grow weary of this red pill/MGTOW hateful victim culture of mostly young Nihililist/atheist men (wasn’t red pill from that Matrix movie produced by a couple of transsexuals??) influenced by these PUA gurus Return of Kings ilk.
I might be a little late to this but i’ve been having a bitter-less bitter relation with mgtow for a while now, as in being torn between mgtow and “normalcy”. I’m 20 and i believe i’m at a stage of my life where i’m the most unsure i’ve ever been.
On one hand i realise that a lot of the warnings or facts regarding divorce laws, courts system, gynocentrism along with the innate biological urge to monkey branch are provably valid. On the other hand i’m witnessing a lot of relationships that aren’t hampered by those factors and living quite happily as well as relationships where it’s the woman that tried to keep things together while the man destroyed it.
One one hand mgtow is teaching how to not label yourself to morph around the modern societal expectation, on the other hand mgtow itself is becoming more and more cult like in it’s approach. On one hand they say they’re not about being hateful and are against that idea, yet i see them declaring women as satanists and subhumans.
On one hand they talk about how we should never let anyone tell us if we’re real men or not and what makes a real man and what doesn’t. On the other hand they themselves act like a club where if you hold any opinions that might go against they’res you’ll immediately get shut down and practically bullied out of there.
On one hand they talk about self improvement and self actualisation yet they never seize to berate women every chance they get. On one hand they claim they’re about open discourse yet they lash out and dismiss everyone that isn’t one of them.
On one hand they claim how love is just a breeding function hard wired by nature and it doesn’t have any more value to it. Yet they constantly go on and on about love and how women are incapable of true love and empathy.
On one hand they talk about how we shouldn’t be painted with a broad brush and generalise, yet they do the same to women and every other man, calling them cunts and cucks and the like.
On one hand i see them talk about how awful women are and they’re always the one that screw over people for personal gain yet i see men do the same quite often as well.
So really, who am i supposed to believe? This question drove me almost insane, i felt physically tired and depressed the deeper i went into this abyss until i finally realised that i just can’t get behind the idea that half of the population is just evil and vindictive yet the other half can mostly do no wrong. Even from a numbers and probability position it makes no sense. What i’m saying is, i’m probably better off not taking sides, i mean, that kind of already defeats the point of being truly free.
I’m honestly just fed up, from bother man hating feminists and woman hating mgtows. I’m tired, i’m done. And then there’s incels who even the mgtows can’t seem to be able to tolerate and they seem to be the lowest low. Like, celebrating women being shot and raped and stuff. Horrible, nasty evil just like feminists celebrating the idea of killing all men. I want no part of this. I guess i was trying to get this off my chest, it’s been weighing down on me for some time now, so thanks you for reading. Good day.
I realise that i’ll get quite a bit of hate for this stance, but if i do that’ll further confirm this decision in my mind.
I believe the next best article to make is: “Why you must avoid the red pill rage”!, “After the red pill proceed to level two and why you must” or “Avoid the rage”. Because a lot of mgtows on the net are rage vocals who are leaving a bad mark for mgtow. They’re the ones making the impression that Mgtows are woman haters when we’re not! As believers in the Mgtow philiosphy, we protect and preserve our health, mind, money, souls and honor from the injustice of a failed society. We aren’t meant to enslave women, we’re supposed to avoid women as much as possible.
But those pricks who are probably incels who no longer had a space in their hate filled forums keep mucking it up! I believe it would be splendid if such an article is to Be published.
“What Happened to All the Nice Guys?”I see this question posted with some regularity in the personals section, so I thought I’d take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven’t figured it out.
What happened to all the nice guys?
The answer is simple: you did.
See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He’d tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn’t feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were fucking treated you.
At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were “just friends.” Besides, he totally wasn’t your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn’t know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.
Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you werent dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren’t the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you’re single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, “What happened to all the nice guys?”
Well, once again, you did.
You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive “just-a-” friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren’t really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you’re upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he’d have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.
Fact is, now, he’s probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I’m sorry that it took the complete absence of “nice guys” in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.
So, if you’re looking for a nice guy, here’s what you do:
1.) Build a time machine.
2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.
3.) Take a look at what’s right in front of you and grab ahold of it.
I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don’t really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.
If you were five years younger.
So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you’ve fucked yourself over. You’re getting older, after all. It’s time to excise the bullshit and deal with reality. You didn’t want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn’t fucking want you, now.
Sincerely,
A Recovering Nice Guy
There’s so much here and I want to add a thought, or insight, to the concept of not being a dick or treating women as the enemy.
The problem is that we want to let down our hair with our friends and romantic partners. Sadly, as we discover in life, we have different levels of friends. Most people aren’t bad but they’re weak. They can behave badly. Unlike a cat, if you’re too nice to them, they crap on you. It’s ideal if we can treat everyone as individuals and be perfectly aware of ourselves at all times, but in real life we also make mistakes. So sometimes we have to be dicks and treat people as “the enemy” as a defense mechanism. Being a nice guy and getting burned is painful. Leadership only means something if others follow the lead. If we’re just being a nice guy on our own, we can set ourselves up for disappointment. On a practical basis, sometimes I’ve been a dick and sometimes I’ve been a nice guy. I feel better about myself if I defaulted to being a dick. And being a dick is closer to alpha thinking than being a nice guy. In addition to that, people respect and follow guys who lean more towards dickness than nice-guyness.
Ideally, we should treat single women in the dating scene as individuals but trends become so common I trust them more than the weather report. If most single women behave like “the enemy”, do you learn perfect game and dance on eggshells in order to avoid being unfair to her or do you adopt frame, including a frame that she’s essentially a psychopath, until you two have developed a closer relationship to begin moving somewhere better?
Sometimes you have to be a dick and you have to treat people as enemies, or at least hostiles. Yeah, that’s sick that in dating, men have to regard women as basically what feminism taught women to regard men as “potential rapists” but unlike the small fraction of single men who are rapists, most single women are entitlement queens conditioned by biology and gynocentric culture to exploit men. See below in that women who are good wives and mothers are off the market quickly.
The leadership is to see opportunities to transform relationships from transactional sex that is the dating world today to something more intimate and respectful but as leader, you set the terms and they follow.
Let’s look at it this way: Young single women have unprecedented power to be leaders: They could set dating terms for men to be respectful of them and to have “honorable” intentions about whether it’s about sex, marriage, or friendship. Leadership also means allies: People who are on your side, have your back, and share your goals. If you have to lead someone whose squandering such potential, it’s useful to remember to not trust them too early. If the simplest “frame” is to regard them as a loose enemy (a product of a misanthropic culture), it can help get the job done. There’s what is ideal and there’s what is practical.
The red pill is by definition not the end of a man’s (or woman’s) awakening but rather the beginning so I agree that nobody should take what anyone says as gospel. In a messed up society such as this, it can take years to learn how to survive in a dystopian jungle and sometimes one is going to make mistakes. Leaders make mistakes because they take risks.
And the end goal of leadership is a society made up of leaders who seek allies instead of dominance nonetheless, sometimes you have to be on your own and MGTOW, not that I’m into that (I’m married with a kid), is about accepting that if all the choices are bad, then go with none of the above for a while. I don’t think I’ve EVER been happy when I’ve done something because I felt I HAD to do “something”.
I wrote this three times and I wonder if I got it ok this time. I (think I) understand the author’s intentions: He doesn’t want men degrading into raw misogyny or isolation (among other things) but I think when I went through that stage, briefly, it was cathartic considering I needed strong energy to move to the next level.
Excellent comment, thanks for sharing.
I’d like to ask few queistons about this.
What do you mean by “You do have to “be a man” to get and keep a woman longterm” or to “be an alpha”? Because defeniton depends from person to person. Some say alpha means to be the top dog in SMV, who is that chad asshole, who treats women like **** and can find girl to **** any night and then some say alpha is stoic, strong man who leads in relationship and so many more different things.
So, what do you, Kaisar (or anybody else) define being a man and/or alpha?
This article is nearly 2.5 years old, but what I would define as a man (now) is someone who is masculine, not effeminate. A person that fulfills the natural order of the traditional male gender role, in comparison to the female counterpart within that traditional natural order. You need to “be a man” to keep a woman long-term, because no woman wants to take on both roles in the natural order long-term and if you aren’t doing it, she has too.
Alpha is just a hierarchical definition. It is also flexible and fluid. An alpha in one setting may not be in another. An alpha could be a guy who is a douchebag like you mentioned or they could be a stoic strong man like you also listed, it depends on the person and if they take a good path or a bad path. Vox Day generally has the most detailed version of the hierarchy, so read him if you’re interested in that. I don’t really care about the SSH anymore, nor do I write about stuff on the manosphere much anymore.
Thanks for your answer.
One last thing that kind of touches on masculinity.
What is your opinion on whole discussion of should men be more vulnerable and do women see it as a chance to connect more or do they see it as weakness or should it be seen as case by case basis?
Have a good one!
No worries, thanks for commenting. I’d personally go for the case-by-case basis. I think there are instances where vulnerability should be acceptable, especially in a marriage (maybe not so much outside of it). But that doesn’t mean that men should be putting their personal problems onto their woman, which is often what vulnerability becomes with too much leeway given. It also depends quite a lot on how the vulnerability is presented by the man. As with most things, the best option is usually somewhere in the middle, not on the extremes of either end.